Does Sin Exist? | Sin | The Forum

Yes, sin does exist. In definition, sin is to miss the mark or to cross the boundaries set by God.  This includes acts and intent.  As we study sin we can see that all have sinned and rightfully deserve the consequences, which is death.  Death is not the will of God for mankind but a choice He must allow.  Now God has provided a solution for the consequences of sin and that  is Jesus Christ.  His death was my consequence for my sin. So yes, sin does exist but with a solution to it's consequences.  This does not mean we have a free pass to do what we wont but God desire for us to serve Him from our heart and free from the guilt of sin.  I do right not because i will be punished but to please My Heavenly Father and when i miss the mark, i confess it and He forgives me.

Post edited 12:21 am – July 10, 2010 by ro10910

(so as to avoid positing its existence eternally within the being of God) Sin is a choice to go against the nature of God (i.e. the will or word of God) which God can not do because it is against His very nature. So, sin does exist and it is not a part of the creator or in the creator but a choice that His creation can make.  

upon what basis does God condemn sin? He condemn's it on the basis that it is against His very nature.

we must suggest that God has created that which is fundamentally contrary to God's very existence.  The created act of God gave man the power or ability to choose, now what man does with this power is on him(man) not God.  So, fundamentally God created choice not sin, man used the power given by God to sin.

So, we must ask, why choice? Did God have to give us the ability choose?  

existdissolve said:

Sin

is a choice to go against the nature of God (i.e. the will or word of

God) which God can not do because it is against His very nature. So, sin

does exist and it is not a part of the creator or in the creator but a

choice that His creation can make. 

I still think the fundamental question of the ontology of sin needs to be answered.  If choosing sin–which you suggest exists–is within the domain of human choice, we still must account for where this object of "choice" derives its existence.  If it obtains from being a part of God's creation, we must conclude that God created it; if it is not created by God, then it is either self-existent or has come into ontology by the creative act of something equal to God.  Either conclusion, IMO, is unsatisfactory for it either locates the ontology of sin within the will and creative purposes of God, or posits that existence of something "other-than" God which is, nonetheless, equal in power and creative action to God.

The

created act of God gave man the power or ability to choose, now what

man does with this power is on him(man) not God.  So, fundamentally God

created choice not sin, man used the power given by God to sin.

But we still have to answer where the objects of choice derive their existence (if they indeed exist). If humans can choose sin, and sin exists, from what source of ontology does sin obtain?  Is it self-existent or was it created by God (or another self-existent being)?

This is why, IMO, speaking of sin in an ontological way is inherently contrary to an orthodox belief in God.  Rather, I suggest that sin should be spoken of only in a negating way, not as something-in-itself.  In this way, we should speak of sin only insofaras it is used as a conceptual short-cut for speaking of the diminution of the goodness of God.  That is, sin is not something in-and-of-itself, but is the unbecoming, the negation of God's purposes in creation.  Apart from this context, the idea of "sin" loses meaning, and any supposed attached ontology dissapates without leaving conceptual contradictions related to the nature and creative acts of God.

Therefore, regarding human "choice," we should not think of humans choosing between God and that which is the "opposite" of God, as if something contrary to the existence of God could obtain ontologically.  Rather, the choice of "sin" is a linguistically-limited way of speaking of choices that are the dimuntion of the goodness of God.  They are not in-and-of-themselves opposed to God's nature, but are thought of as such because they are the lessening, the negation of the goodness of God.

As an example, let's consider the act of lying.  The act of lying is not sinful because it is the telling of something "false" that exists–such is nonsensical, for that which isn't "true" doesn't have ontology: we cannot speak of something that is nothing.  So then, when we lie, the lie is "sinful" precisely because we are speaking of the diminution and unbecoming of truth.  A lie is not the advocacy of something "opposite" of truth (e.g., that which "is"), but is simply the negation of that which is true, that which exists.  In fact, to further stress the point, if the supposed "object" of the lie (falsehood) had ontology, it would not, after all, be a lie, for speaking of that which exists is categorically an act of truth-telling.

This is precisely why God cannot lie.  It is not because God's nature cannot choose that which is "opposite" of God; rather, it is definitively because that which is the "opposite" of God doesn't exist for God to choose.  God cannot lie because the truth is all that there is to be known, and God cannot do that which is the diminution of Godself.

Wow, I see you have given this subject much thought.  But, a lie in itself, saying something this is not, is not a sin. What make's it wrong or contrary to God, is the motive.  If i tell you something with the intent of deceiving you, now i have performed outside the true nature of God.  I know the point is does sin exist and not the lie but like you i use it to illustrate my point, choice is a responsibility which gives us the opportunity to mature spiritually.  God gave us the ability (power, responsibility).  Let look at Adam, he was complete at creation but need to mature in his decision making thus the fall.  if there is no sin why was adam and eve put out of the garden, removed from there original surrounding.  I don't fully understand the concept of the knowledge of good and evil, or why God wanted us not to have this ability.  there was obviously the ability to choose before they eat the fruit, so choosing was a part of creation.  that for another blog.  

So break it down for me again but this time take it to it's lower denominator.  and if sin does not exist than why is it spoke of in the bible.  Even Jesus said to think in heart, of being with another woman, is sin to that person.